In this episode of The Visibility Brief, Yext SVP of Marketing Rebecca Colwell sits down with Will Reynolds, CEO and VP of Innovation of Seer Interactive, for a conversation about how AI is reshaping not just search — but the fundamentals of marketing itself.
For years, marketers have measured success in rankings, impressions, and traffic. But AI is changing what those numbers are worth. When a chatbot can summarize everything ever written about a brand into a single answer, being visible stops being a competitive edge and starts being table stakes.
A brand can show up everywhere and still lose if it isn't believable and trustworthy to customers. And when this trust becomes the deciding factor, the old marketing playbook starts to break.
Will's argument: AI is pushing marketing away from content built for scale and toward something much harder to fake: credibility.
The episode breaks down:
Why visibility alone no longer drives results
The risks of overusing AI-generated content
How unique perspectives, lived experience, and subject matter expertise are emerging as the most valuable signals
What marketers should stop, start, and rethink
If you're a marketing leader navigating the shift from visibility to credibility, this episode will help you rethink how your brand shows up — and whether it earns the trust required to win.
Episode Links
Transcript
00:00:00.160 — 00:00:19.480 Marketers today are rushing to create brand visibility through AI generated content. But our guest today is making a different bet. Will Reynolds has spent 20 years at Seer Interactive, operating under a different assumption. The brands that win long term are those that build trust with actual people. 00:00:27.640 — 00:00:55.520 Well, amazing to have you here today. Thanks for having me. So I just checked out your session. Absolutely fantastic. Energy in the room is incredible. Loved all the music as well. So fun. Yes. But before we get into the content of your session. So we were just chatting. You are a runner. I am Running is such an interesting endeavor. They have to have a really special mindset for that. So I'm really curious, how did you get into running and like what does it mean to you? I was getting fat, 00:00:56.640 — 00:00:57.799 so I 00:00:58.840 — 00:02:34.820 was always able to. I was never able to put on weight. So like at the same exact height that I am today. I went into college this height weighing 165 pounds. Whoa. So I was like super skinny and I wanted to play rugby and I'm not very fast. So I was like, you don't want to be the tall, slow guy. So I was like, let me put on weight. So then it was just like three 4000 calories every day trying to put on weight. So I got used to being able to eat a lot and burn it. And then after having kids, metabolism hit about 33 and suddenly old two cheesesteak. Will wasn't doing what he could used to do and burn it off. So I started being like, well, I guess I got to do some activities that'll burn it off for the first time. So I used to try to always keep it on. So I never did cardio ever, because I was always trying to keep the weight that I could finally get on. That caught up to me eventually. It sure does. So you picked running as opposed to swimming or tennis or. Yeah. So, um, it's the easiest thing to do. Take a pair of shoes. It's like it's like the lowest excuse thing. Oh, the courts were full. Oh, somebody else is in the lane. Oh, this. Oh, that was running. You're like, you got shoes, you know. And you can say, oh, it rained today. So what? Oh, it snowed today. So what? The thing about running, too, is that it is 100% on you, right? No, no one else. No one else to blame. Um, which I think it can make it really, really hard if you don't have the right mindset. So I, I was reading one of your posts on LinkedIn and you were you were talking about this. And so I'm curious how you connect like the mindset of running to marketing today. Oh, um, 00:02:36.180 — 00:05:15.960 one of the things that I love about running is it gives me a lot of time with my own thoughts. And actually, uh, it's a great partner with AI because you can have a thought on a run and kind of be like, challenge me on this. Like, I think I'm super, right? Challenge me. Like, where am I wrong? What are my blind spots? How might a person in this role disagree and you're just running. That's what's great is, you know, from. From an ideation standpoint, it's like every morning for an hour and an hour and a half, I had time to work through my thoughts. Oh that's incredible. I love that I tend to do math when I'm running. Oh, God. How long? No, no. Just like, how long is it going to take me to get to that fence post and like, driving myself to keep going when I want to give up? Um, but yeah, once I get into that flow zone, then I start to have those wonderful thoughts that come. Do you chat with an LLM while you're running all the time? Okay. So what's your favorite LLM? Um, so my biggest issue early days was you couldn't do ChatGPT because if you talk for five minutes on ChatGPT, you have like a 30% likelihood that it would like choke up and then everything you just spit out gone. Claude lets you go for ten minutes straight. And at least for the first two years of me doing it, it never failed. It just started to a little bit. Okay. So, like, nothing's worse than. Like, you have an idea. You're trying to get it all out, and then you're like, it ain't there. What a freak. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay. Do you, uh, do you say please and thank you? No, I don't, but it's how I was raised, so I've had to un train myself of please and thank you. I had a friend once, many years ago. He was like, I try to do things that remind me that this thing isn't a human because it's trying to be like, hey, like, we're buds. And you're like, no, we're not. Um, no we're not. So I think pleasing Thank you gets into like us, but like, this thing is just like, just do work, right? Right. Yeah. I was chatting earlier, um, with Lauren. Just saying. I maintain the habit of saying please and thank you just because I don't ever want to lose that when I'm engaging with my team, but I. I see your point, yo, that's real. Because what you got to be careful of is, like, my kids, for instance, are just barking commands at stuff. I literally took the tablet away from my kid the other day because I was like, dude, you're just barking at this thing like this. It's not a human. But my fear is, is that you start slipping, right? And you start treating people a certain way. So yeah. No, I'm I'm not worried about that for me, but I'm definitely worried about that for other people. Right, right. 00:05:17.200 — 00:05:23.880 I also saw something you said where you don't allow AI to write anything for you. Mhm. Um, why is that? 00:05:25.760 — 00:05:27.000 It's interesting. 00:05:29.240 — 00:05:32.320 The more vanilla you are, 00:05:33.360 — 00:08:22.779 the easier it is for ChatGPT or Claude to replicate you. So I look at vanilla as like oh yeah. If you're just insert say the thing, what am I supposed to say on stage. Like, you know, for years, like I get on stage, the words in my head are always like, swear words, right? So, you know, I was like, I'm just going to be myself. Every AI has been trained that swearing is unprofessional, but I'm like, that's not the feedback I want from you. So then you try to train it out and eventually you're like, now get rid of the dashes. Now throw in a hip hop reference and you're like, but I didn't really listen to that song, so it's not authentic. And you're like, you know what would be easier and better? Use it as a freaking thought partner. Help me work through my thoughts. Help me battle, test my thoughts. The writing is also, I feel like writing is part of the process of like slowing you down, getting your thoughts out. So yeah, I'm not personally, and I think there's a bunch of really interesting research on like founder led content and how important it is and how important it can be to companies who have founders that put content out. And it's got to kind of be this it's got to come from a place of authenticity or eventually people start, you know, and I feel like all we got is our rep. You know? Yeah. I mean, you have to have a perspective and AI doesn't have a perspective. And you want a perspective that isn't Always the perspective of everyone else. Or you have a vanilla perspective, which it already knows. That's the average perspective of the average person. So what are you contributing? So for me, I found that I was spending so much time editing the post to try to get it to sound like me. I'm like, I should have just written the freaking thing in the first place, right? Right. I loved what you said in your session today. You had this or that. Yeah. And you went deep into AI trying to find something negative to say about your brand with that review, and I, I that really resonated with me as well. And so maybe you could walk the people who weren't there through your what you were trying to communicate in that section. All right. So first thing, I'd pound this table if it wasn't so light. And I was scared that it would flip it over, like I'm so passionate about. This topic is everybody's chasing visibility. Look at these case studies. Go to any company, including mine. Case studies are like, we did this. We grew a visibility for this. And it's all non brand non brand non brand. It just goes to show that these jokes like they're not thinking the right way. Like you've spent a lot of time and money I've been on a lot of stages. I spent a lot of hours writing slide decks, writing blog posts, doing research. You spend all that time for somebody to get to know your brand. You might just want to focus on your branded prompts and see, do the answers come back in a way that fits what you really believe about your business? So what I presented today was a version of 00:08:24.660 — 00:09:36.810 a competitor of ours, was mentioned in an RFP client left their name in. So then I took that as an opportunity to say, like, what would the AI find about me versus this specific competitor? And we've also done a lot of UX work where we know that most people type in brands, like 50% of people are typing in brands as part of their problem. So how do they even know the the brand had to be planted in your head somewhere? Who planted that? It's never an article. Rarely. It's usually a friend. It's a conference. It's something that you saw that planted the brand in your mind, right? So what we did is we put our brand versus this competitor brand, and ChatGPT was coming back with this thing like seer has high account manager turnover and I'm okay with that if that was true. But I'm like, well where did you get that information? We have one bad review in 24 years, and the AI is not smart enough to realize that one bad review in 24 years. They know my revenue. They know when I was founded. So I checked all these things and it's like, oh, they're siloed into like siloed thinking. They do not hop across and really reason through. That's probably not it. So. And the crazy part is the review is left by an alumni 00:09:37.890 — 00:12:23.870 who left us. I gave her a referral. She got a job, then got there and was like, yo, I want to hire you guys. And then started treating her old teammates like shit, so you had to fire them. I was in Rio de Janeiro. I'll never forget it. I was on the beach in Rio de Janeiro when I had to call her and be like, this ain't working for us anymore. I'm sorry. So her only like revenge opportunity was to write a bad review all on the same day on a bunch of websites that no one would really visit. But in an AI world where they might visit a hundred sites to get an answer, they go pros on seer. Oh, we don't have to go through more than ten. We got interviews. We got this, we got that. We're good. But we should have some cons. We don't want to be like, they're great. I get that. That makes sense. I would want that in most of my prompts. Give me some balance here. So they went digging and digging and digging and dig in. And then they started showing this like negative thing about our brand. And then we just started open source. So we're just going to keep open sourcing more of the data about our business, good or bad. You know, we had a 97% client retention rate. We put that in the footer and ChatGPT picked up on it in 36 hours. And that's a great thing. Well, year over year it slipped a bit and went to 92%. We updated it because that's how you actually earn trust with real people is when you're like, damn, like your retention went down and you're willing to go through the site and not just wait till it gets back. Like, no, like we have to be honest. Yeah, absolutely. You know, well, you talked a lot about building trust and credibility versus just visibility. And I thought that that was so fascinating and so true. Right. So tell me a little bit more about this concept of, uh, it doesn't matter if people can find you if if they don't believe what you are saying about yourself or what the Lem is saying about you. Got it. So I'm a I love IPAs. I'm a I'm a beer drinker. Me too. What's your favorite? Um, well, I'm from Portland, so I have a lot of favorites. Maine or Oregon? Portland, Oregon. Like beer. Capital of the world. Right? Um, but I'm kind of on the. I'm obsessed with hazy IPAs right now. Are you? That's what you know, I'm more of a West Coast IPA kind of guy, so I like, um, Maine Brewing lunch is my favorite. Okay, so that's Portland, Maine. That's why when you said right, right. Are we going to be like beer friends? Um. But no. So, like, have you seen a Coors Light ad? Yeah. Of course. Right. Have you ever intentionally ordered a cause of light when you had another option? Never. The only time I drink Coors Light is after I mow the lawn. Because I need more water than beer. Got it. Yeah. So, um, Coors Light spends a lot of money for me to know their brand, I am visible, they are very visible. I know, cause I know Miller, I know Miller, you know, I know banquet, whatever. I know all these beers. I will never buy one of them. I'm a modelo guy, 00:12:24.910 — 00:17:18.350 so it's never going to happen. Yep, yep. But they continue to spend money. So are they visible? Yes. Do I believe that they are the beer for me? No. So it means that they are spending a chunk of their budget and that's okay. They get that. We all get that in marketing to show up to people who will never consider them. Right. And I think and I think that in an AI world, the bad part is, is when people are specifically searching, Imagine you're searching for like a hoppy IPA and somebody just like we're the number one hoppy IPA and you're like, well, you're not really. But the AI is so dumb that it's just if you say it enough times, it believes it. So now, yes, you won. I bought a six pack and after that I realized it was trash, so I. So you got your money out of me in the short term. But long term, you're not a brand that I believe or choose ever again. Right. And I think a lot of AI and a lot of content these days, and the pressure being put on us as marketers is leading us to this kind of how quickly can I get it out? How can I scale it? And every challenge, everything I say to a marketer is take the content that you build with your workflow and go to Google Analytics and see if any human has ever shared it with another human. Do you see any traffic coming from Microsoft Teams because that referral still comes through? No, not usually. And no one's willing to share this data with me. That's the funny part. No one. They'll share me visibility data on how their listicles are performing. But I've been like, yo, dawg, like we're friends. I'm not going to put you on blast publicly. Show me the Google Analytics that, oh well, no, you know, it just it doesn't I don't think that the content was written for, for for people to share with other people. Then what the fuck are you doing? Right? Like, what are you writing this stuff for? If it's like, just for visibility at some point, you know, it's like you run an agency where you probably saw projects in, like the six figure range. You don't think, first of all, what kind of lead goes to AI to ask for a geo agency and goes, I'm not going to ask anyone. I know. I'm not going to ask anyone in my network. Right. So now what you do is we people act like it's crazy. Like especially in B2B, I find that people act like if you just Google something, you ignore the ease of sending a text or a WhatsApp or LinkedIn and being like, has anybody worked with these people? Because I'm going to be working with them for 12 months at a six figure deal, but and then what are you putting into the world that makes people say, oh, I've heard of them. They're good. Oh, nothing, because I'm spending all my time building scaled content that no one shares with anybody, because it's not really that good when a human has to put their name and their reputation. Whenever I share something with you, I am putting my reputation in my name as part of that send. It's interesting how many of us are producing content we would never share with somebody with our name on it. Oh my God, yeah, what a good metric there. It was interesting. You said in your session that people trust AI. Um, I think your stat was something like 56%. We just did a global consumer study with, I think, 3 or 4000 folks. And we asked, do you trust the recommendations from Llms? And people mostly said, yes. But then we said, what do you do next? Like, do you act on what that recommendation tells you? And only 7% of people said yes. Everyone else went to Google, checked out the social media, asked a friend, did all of those other validation behaviors that you were talking about. So you're 100% right. Like showing up? It's fine. It's part of the journey. It's part? Yeah, but it's not the job to be done. Right? Right. Somehow we got it twisted, right? Like us, I checked, like, you know, like the job to be done is to actually turn people who see your stuff into fans. Believers. Right. You're trying to turn in the fans. People that believe you might not need to ever hire a seer. But when you hear the name, I want you to think something about it and to say like, yeah, I've seen good stuff. And then eventually I hope that leads to me being chosen. But the hard part is, is that's not really easy to track either. So, you know, I think we as marketers have got addicted and we've trained our leaders to judge us based on things that are trackable. And now that things are not as trackable, we want to just show them some study and be like, no, it's like, well, you've been training me for ten years that everything was trackable, and now in ten weeks I'm supposed to change my KPIs. It's hard. Right? I mean, every board, every CEO is asking for some kind of AI brand visibility metric. Tell us why we're showing up and and all of that stuff, and, You talked a lot about how you don't trust the data or or don't believe that information. No, I mean like the prompts. So one of the things that we realized is by talking to actual human beings and watching them do prompts, you realize that, like one example I gave today is for one task. Across 30 people are min and max on the number of words per to the number of words in their prompt. One person used four words. One person used 119 words. 00:17:19.430 — 00:18:39.380 I think we need to start to show our leaders. What do I do with this for your visibility. What do I do with this? Do I have to now come up with a bunch of 100 plus word prompts? Do I just do the four? Like, what do I do? Like, you have to almost bring people in when you want to change their frame on how they look at your business or how they look at the work you do, you've really got to bring them in. Hey, look at this piece of content I built that you wanted to get AI visibility. It got the visibility check. You're happy. Let me show you that. Nobody gives a shit about it. Yes. You had a fantastic reference to the six best restaurants in Minnesota, right? And content. Content like that. Right. Where it's clearly generated by AI. Tell me a little bit more about why that content sucks so much and what they could have done instead. So Minnesota's a big state. Oh, yeah. It takes seven hours to drive from one side of Minnesota to the other. Most of us do not drive seven hours for a restaurant. Therefore, some humans somewhere in the process got kudos for the speed by which they executed on content. And they did this for every state all on the same day. So they didn't go. I mean, like, think about what that is. They didn't go out and taste any food. 00:18:40.420 — 00:18:59.650 They used their internal data to say, this one gets the most money spent at it. You know, the most money spent at a Burger King. Like, if it's in the right place, like that's what you're going to do. And they were like, yeah. And then what's crazy is I got to be careful with what I say. It's okay. It's not being recorded. Um, they 00:19:01.650 — 00:19:12.129 they are now in the company that powers that low quality shits adds as an example of good use of 00:19:13.330 — 00:19:41.650 orchestrated AI content. And you're like, oh, the stuff that the person wrote that says best restaurant in California, all done on the same date, even though it takes 20 hours to drive from one side of California to the other, that is a case study in your advertising that they use your platform for these things and how much their visibility increased. But like I said before my presentation, you won't show anybody how many people started choosing you or believing you after they got to that content. 00:19:42.810 — 00:20:06.090 It's such terrible judgment. I mean, from a marketer's perspective, to think that that is great content. And I, I'm really curious if the use of overuse of AI is atrophying or judgment. Oh my god. Um, I think so. At some point you watch when people let AI right for them. We lost a massive deal because somebody let AI write an entire slide deck. 00:20:07.650 — 00:21:37.000 This person doesn't bring me any business. They need me and other people to bring business into the company. All they had to do was create a slide deck and they went on a walk with Claude, talked it all out, had Claude or Gemini or whatever build a slide deck, and they sent that to the client. It broke my freaking heart to see. And you're like, this is what happens when we turn our brains off. And it cost me probably over three years, 3 million bucks. Oh, God. And, you know, it's really interesting because if I ask an LLM a question about something that I don't know about, it can seem somewhat credible. But if I ask it about something that I'm I'm an expert in, it instantly crumbles under scrutiny. Right? I'm like, that's bullshit. That's bullshit. That doesn't make sense. That misunderstood that. So I'm constantly questioning to what I read now to say, okay, it seems really confident about this topic, but does it actually know what it's talking about? And this is why I was talking a lot. Towards the end of my session about curators and the importance of curation, because in a world where we question the answers that we get. So now we have to question the answers that we get. Now we got a question. Every video that we see. Question question question question. Once you're questioning everything you see, you're like, who is a brand that I believe would never post an AI video for clicks? Great. Then I'm just going to believe the videos that I see from them. Who are the creators that I believe? Well, a lot of people been asking me lately to do a lot of, um, 00:21:38.920 — 00:28:35.460 influencer shit. Oh, yeah. For their brands. Yeah. And I'm like, I already shared your stuff like three weeks ago. Isn't it interesting that you're reaching out to me to put me in your influencer thing, and you're asking me to literally promote the thing that I promoted literally three weeks ago? That's how fast you're just running through shit. Burning up relationships along the way. It's like. So I think a lot of people have just shut their brains off. I don't know. The way I talk to my team about AI in the moment that we're in, I'm like, the more of your job that is a checklist, the more trouble you're in. And you got to be really honest about what part of my job is a checklist because it's you today and it's not you tomorrow. Once they figure out how to. I mean, look, meta just came out saying that they're going to, um, they want to and are going to put software to monitor everything people do on their laptops in certain and certain things so they can train an AI to do your you're like, that's where we're at. Yeah. Horrible. Horrible. Um, it strikes me that okay, so you mentioned your training for a marathon. Yep. In running, you can spend years, months, weeks training, and then one little thing can kind of throw you off your game, right? Like, you overtrained and you injure yourself or something. And it takes it takes so long to build back. I think brand is the same way. Right. You can spend years generating trust and then just blow it in an instant 100%. So what are some of the things that, like the most egregious things that brands can do to undermine their credibility? And and then what should they do instead to just stay on track? Sure. I think too many brands allow people that aren't subject matter experts to write content like. So we had a blog post. I just love using my own stuff because it becomes so much easier. It's much more authentic to be like, we had a blog post on our website related to how to pick an agency, uh, through through an RFP process for SEO. And I read it and I looked at it, it ranked like number 2 or 3. And I was like, this is shit. I'm like, I would never give any of these answers to one of my friends. So I'm like, huh? How does a company allow a person to have built a piece of content that got visibility and performed decently well? But what did we do? We did semantic SEO, so we looked at the top ten, saw everything they did, and tried to do the same exact thing a little bit better. And I was like, but the people that wrote those were content marketers. I'm an actual SEO that's been doing this for 24 years of my life. Why don't I just write this content myself? So then I had a developer build a tool for me where I could just walk and talk. It would take all the content, put it into like a draft format for me. And then I went through and edited the hell out of it, but we tweaked it, so it was always in my voice. Right? And I'm like, that's what you really want is you. So you have to stop having people that have never done the job. Writing the content makes perfect sense. It makes perfect. We have content marketers. So what content marketers should do is figure out how do I build the infrastructure to interview SMEs? Extract the things that they know and turn that into value instead of how do I do the keyword research to find out the search volume so I can write an article that when an SME sees it, they're like, that's not really how the job is done. I would never say that I got 1000 of opinions, but you never asked me. So yeah, sure. Roll that out or oh, it got caught by this SME. He was like, you can't put that out. And it's like, well why not? It's like, because you didn't talk to me, right? Right. You've never done this job. I've been doing it for 20 something years. So I think more people need to literally interview their, um, their subject matter experts. Yeah. That's brilliant. That's what I love about the podcasting model, by the way. Just get the subject matter experts to say directly. That's interesting. Yeah. Podcast is just that, right. There's no more authentic voice than you right now. Just chatting with me. I never thought about it that way, but. Right. So what we do is we have built a whole infrastructure that just interviews SMEs. And it just like runs we call your number ones. We train you on how to kind of talk to the AI because you got to got to be a politician. You got to kind of like say what you wanted to say, even though the question came in and you're like, oh, right. But we've had SMEs stumped by the AI. We've had feedback where people have been like, that is such a good question that I need. I wish I had gotten them in advance as what this one SME said, because it would have made me think about them before I got on the call, because I was a little bit like, damn, that's a good question. Most of our SMEs in our technical spaces are like, it feels like I'm being interviewed by a peer, not a journalist. I've heard that from three different people now. Oh, I like that. Feel like it feels like I'm talking to a peer that actually understands what I do, not a person looking for bylines and headlines and and gotchas and stuff like that. Oh that's fascinating. Okay, I'm stealing that tip. The the the stack is not crazy. You, um, you basically have to have one agent in just a blog post. Super easy. Then you have it run deep research on that blog post to say, like what's changed in the industry since the date of publication? Then you have the AI create a bunch of questions, and then you connect it to um, uh uh, that is the AI voice tool. But there's another tool in the middle of it, um, that does phone numbers, and you literally can call somebody on their mobile and you're just talking to it, and it's like interviewing you and asking you questions. And then once you hang up, you've only spent ten minutes with me as an SME one. The interviewer made you think about stuff that's new, so you like it. Two, you're much more likely to approve the content because it's all the things that you said, so it gets approved faster. Three there's a thing called information gain where Google knows that people just copy each other, so it will boost results that are bringing in where it gains information about a topic that doesn't just follow what everybody else said. So you also can get a rankings boost. And what we've also found is you start to build a database of knowledge inside your company that everybody wants to access, because what we would find is people would be telling us all kinds of stuff that the marketing team was like. I did not know. We used to work with that client and had that big of a success. I just got here six months ago. It's like, right? Whereas whereas if I wrote that same content, I'd be. Let me go to SEMrush. Let me look up these words. You know, I wasn't on the front lines with a client and can share a real story. And then because they're sharing real stories, it's easier to turn their SM content into social. So you see how like rejecting this like scaled auto AI thing you. But I'm still using AI. That's the funny part. AI is doing all the interviewing, all the research, all the question asking. But at that last moment of like, let's pull the insights out. I'm like, don't you want somebody who recommends you a restaurant who tasted the freaking food? So AI is not doing the thinking for you? No, it's just streamlining all those fussy workflow pieces. 100%. Yeah, I love that one. Final question. Three part question. Um, what do marketers need to stop, start and rethink? 00:28:37.660 — 00:28:39.740 What kind of marketer do you want to be? 00:28:41.260 — 00:30:39.770 Everybody's got to like, stop, not stop, but everybody's gotta rethink. What kind of marketer do I really want to be? Because there's so many different ways to win right now that you can pick whatever path you want, but I think you've got to figure that out. So that's the rethink. I would start interviewing SMEs like crazy. Yeah. If I was a marketer internally, I'd be like, I'm the marketer who built the database of all the internal knowledge of why we did what we did, how things have turned out. And I ping that because these people, they're SMEs, they just keep talking and giving you more and giving you more. So I would start testing. Everything's a test. Run your normal AI workflow orchestrator and produce content. Have content marketers produce content, and then have your subject matter experts content produced and see what performs best. When it comes to connecting with humans, which ones of those content is most likely to get your brand put into a prompt in the future, where you're only competing with you, right? I don't want to be unbranded. So that's the other thing I would say is stop worrying about non brand prompts. It's crazy because everybody starts there. We should all get there eventually. But everybody hits me up. How can I rank for podcast microphone. And I'm like, there's 100,000 people a month searching on Google still for your brand, right? Why don't we take all the brand words people are searching for you versus this versus that, and find out if we agree or disagree with the answers that ChatGPT has, right? That's an idea. I love that. Yeah. So yeah. Amazing. Ah, well, I think we could chat for another hour. But you have. Yeah. I got adoring fans out there that will want to connect with you. This was so fantastic. Thank you so much. I learned a lot and really enjoyed our conversation. Thanks for having me. It was really fun. Absolutely. Take care. That's a wrap on this episode of The Visibility Brief. If you found this useful, subscribe, leave us a review or send this to a colleague who needs to hear it. We'll see you next time.
